Greg introduced me to the podcasts of Wayne Grudem recently. I am so excited to hear this godly man teach! He was the general editor of the ESV version of the Bible. He knows Greek. He is the Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix seminary. He has written many books about theology. He is part of the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. I had heard David Platt mention that council in his sermons at times. Greg told me that David Platt referenced Wayne Grudem in some of his teaching. I am thrilled to see this statement that I am about to share – it explains things much more clearly and concisely than I ever could! This is a summary of all that I have been teaching and exactly what I believe the Bible teaches! Who knew!?!? What an excellent resource Wayne Grudem is and the site about Biblical Manhood and Womanhood is, too. I just had to let you in on these resources – can’t keep them to myself! (Please keep in mind that we must always carefully weigh what any human says against Scripture and prayerfully test what is said.)
They also have a Statement on Abuse which is extremely important! I agree with it wholeheartedly, as well.
The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood also has a page with 3 free books – one of which is Wayne Grudem’s and John Piper’s Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood.
How did we miss this??!?!? I long for every believer to be able to have access to this wealth of information and biblical teaching! I have been listening to Wayne Grudem’s podcasts on Systematic Theology – WOW!!!!!!!!!! I don’t want to stop listening. I just want to absorb all I can. Such a blessing. And I love the site on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. Wish I had seen it years ago. 🙂
Hi April- WOW- how very encouraging!! I have shared with you before my concerns about women being elders- I was an elder of our church years ago- my husband was not completely in agreement but agreed ,partly not to be controlling and partly due to my reaction if he disagreed.BUT thru it all it took me a long time to decide because I was not comfortable with it,but did not know why- our pastor kept encouraging me,telling me I was already walking in that role with people coming to me for prayer… . since that time, it caused major problems in our marriage and my husband and I have both learned from it. what true spiritual authority looks like in our marriage.(My change has much to do with what I am learning thru your blog! Thank you so much April! )
We are back at the same church where another woman is an elder, we are being taught God’s word but the Lord is not being honoured in this part of the leadership. It is so very encouraging to have affirmation in this post and we are praying for God to guide us in how to deal with this situation. Thank you so very much for posting. I am so looking forward to reading more about this. God is so gentle and faithful in His guiding!
Wayne Grudem speaks about his understanding of the role of women in the church in his podcasts, and in Systematic Theology, as well as in the books he has written that counter evangelical feminism. What I like about him is that he is very calm, loving, and humble. He also presents other viewpoints and the evidence that others give to support their viewpoints. And then he explains why he doesn’t believe certain arguments stand against biblical truth. I think you will find his writings and podcasts to be a valuable source of information. Just listened to one of his podcasts on the role of women in the church today, actually.
Praying for wisdom for you and for your husband!
Yes, I want us all to experience God’s best. One thing I think that came up that I hadn’t really thought about as I listened to Wayne Grudem today was that if a woman were to reprimand or correct a man publicly in a church meeting, then she would be the one he would come after if he was offended. I believe that having men have authority protects us in multiple ways as women. I know that I have taken the brunt of some anger from people here. I handle it to an extent, but if someone gets really nasty, or if it is a man who is being contentious with me – Greg handles it. What a weight that takes from my shoulders.
I agree. I am incredibly thankful for Greg’s support and also for his protection and wise advice. I am thankful you have Ken. He definitely looks out for you!
I so want to answer your question, my friend! I am hesitant, because I am not sure you can hear me without misunderstanding. But, I will attempt to explain. 🙂
When a believer in Christ is walking in obedience to God’s Word and is walking by the power of God’s Spirit rather than their own human strength, that person has God’s power, protection, wisdom, love, and many spiritual treasures that they cannot and do not have when they are walking in disobedience to God’s Word. So, part of the protection a wife has when she honors God’s commands to her as a wife to honor her husband’s leadership comes from the fact that she is walking in obedience and in faith, trusting God.
God has the power to sway a husband’s heart, and to direct his steps. When a wife trusts God to lead her through her husband, God can do that. Of course, if a husband tries to lead his wife into sin, she must respectfully decline, because her submission to Christ is preeminent over her submission to her husband. God has total authority over her. Humans never have total authority. They have delegated authority (more about that in Spiritual Authority). When a believer submits to those in delegated authority over them, whether the government, their boss, the police, a child’s parents, or a wife’s husband – the believer is obeying God and there are rewards that come from that. Sometimes there are blessings that come in this lifetime, and always there are rewards in heaven for obedience.
But also, as a wife honors her husband’s God-given leadership, a decent man will be humbled greatly and will have a greater desire to love and protect her and he will have a greater desire to seek God himself and to draw closer to God because of his wife’s beautiful example.
My husband protects me by helping me with very difficult people – he will now stand in the gap between me and someone who tries to attack me in some way. He didn’t do that when I was taking charge and being controlling and disrespectful. He also protects me with our children by insisting that they speak respectfully to me. He protects me from stress by helping me to decide if something needs to go from my plate if I am trying to do too much. He protects me from making hasty decisions by taking time to carefully research and really think through the consequences of decisions.
There are many more things, as well. But, maybe that will somewhat answer your question. 🙂
There can be other kinds of protection, as well, of course – financially a husband would want to protect his wife and family and provide well for them so that they would not ever be in want. And a husband would want to protect his wife and family from physical harm – from storms, from intruders, from safety issues, etc… He would want to protect them emotionally from being hurt by others – or even by himself – whenever possible. He also would want to protect them spiritually from false teaching and from sin and things that would lead them away from God.
Thank you for your explanation, I know it can seem as if I don’t understand to which some degree I don’t and that may be due to that I have never been in a relationship so I do ask a lot of questions. I just really wanted to say thank you because normally when I do ask christians questions they never really answer my questions, they just tell me things like ” you just gotta have faith” or they just start name calling me.
I want to try to answer any question you may have as clearly and thoroughly as I can. 🙂 I believe you don’t have a relationship with Christ yet, if I am remembering correctly. Some of these things make a lot more sense when you are walking in a trusting relationship with Christ. So, I know that to some degree, when I try to explain, it may just not make sense. But – I know you are searching for truth. And I want to give you real answers. God doesn’t expect us to put faith in nothing. He gives us real evidence. I want to give you detailed answers – but at the same time, I know we may not be on the same page, so I realize there is a lot of room for misunderstanding.
I don’t call anyone names! Goodness! It breaks my heart to hear that you have not been getting clear answers or that anyone who calls themselves a Christian would call you names. 😦 I care very much about your soul, your heart, your needs, your life, and your relationship with God. 🙂 I want to see you find this amazing Treasure that is in Christ. You are very precious to me and infinitely more precious to God!
I’m happy to do anything I can to explain things to the best of my ability. Of course, there are some things about God that we little humans will never be able to wrap our minds around – ever. And we will always be learning while we are here on earth and even in heaven – there will be more and more to learn. I will do my best to point you to solid biblical answers and to the hope that is found in Christ, even on the difficult topics.
Here is a link to a free download “Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood” edited by John Piper and Wayne Grudem. Chapter one describes a practical overview of what mature masculinity and mature femininity look like (by God’s design in the Bible). It may be helpful. 🙂
Worldly wisdom and human wisdom can’t really comprehend God. Everything God asks us to do goes totally against our normal human nature and wisdom.
The world says: look out for number 1. God says: die to yourself and live for God.
The world says: hate anyone who hurts you and get revenge. God says: love those who mistreat you and overcome evil with good – leave vengeance to Me.
The world says: make sure you always get your way. God says: look out for the good of others, don’t be selfish.
The world says: make sure you have all the power in every relationship. God says: give up your power to Me, and I will work things out for your ultimate good.
The world says: avoid suffering at all costs. God says: rejoice in suffering because I will use it to make you stronger, more mature in your faith, and to bring glory to Myself.
God’s ways make no sense to us. But they are so much higher than our ways!
I hope you fine ladies will take a closer look at the ministry of this man; not because he is beneficial but because he adds to the Word things that are not there. And his association with the ESV, which takes liberties away from the original Greek, further supports his changing of God’s plan for us all. I have enjoyed your site and thought you have been spot on and hope now that you really look at if the conclusions Grudem draws are Biblical. Sincerely, a husband of 3+ decades.
Thank you so much for voicing your concerns. And thanks for your past support of my blog. 🙂 I appreciate it so much!
I don’t see anything in the statement about biblical manhood and womanhood that is unbiblical in my understanding at this time. And I haven’t seen Grudem add things to the Word so far in what I have studied. I also don’t see anything unbiblical at this point in what I have heard on his podcasts in Systematic Theology. I know there are times when people ask questions for which he agrees there is no answer in the Bible. He sometimes states his opinion of what he thinks might be true. But, in all of those instances, he makes it very clear that there is no biblical information. Maybe that is what you are talking about?
This is one reason why I almost never ever recommend any other sites. There is no one I can recommend who is going to be totally perfect. Of course, I’m not either! That is why I encouraged everyone to weigh everything that Grudem or anyone else, including myself, says – against Scripture.
I am not aware of any glaring issues with Grudem. This is a lot more complicated for most of us because we don’t speak or read Greek and we are dependent on accurate translators. So, that is definitely a big frustration.
And, there will be times when believers genuinely differ on certain interpretations of specific theological issues. Sometimes there will be disagreements. Thankfully, in Christ, we can still have unity. I am not aware of Wayne Grudem teaching anything false. I am unfamiliar with any examples of the issues you have had with him.
Thank you very much for sharing your concerns. I seek to carefully evaluate everything he says in light of Scripture. Let’s pray for Grudem together that God might give him His wisdom and let’s pray the same for me, please. 🙂
Yes! Wayne Gruden cowrote Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womahood with John Piper (and others) and that book has been crucial to me in my recovery. They say they essense of mature masculinity and femininity is this:
“AT THE HEART OF MATURE MASCULINITY IS A SENSE OF BENEVOLENT RESPONSIBILITY TO LEAD, PROVIDE FOR AND PROTECT WOMEN IN WAYS APPROPRIATE TO A MAN’S DIFFERING RELATIONSHIPS.
~
AT THE HEART OF MATURE FEMININITY IS A FREEING DISPOSITION TO AFFIRM,
RECEIVE AND NURTURE STRENGTH AND LEADERSHIP FROM WORTHY MEN IN WAYS
APPROPRIATE TO A WOMAN’S DIFFERING RELATIONSHIPS.”
(sorry for the caps that’s how they wrote it 😛 )
So helpful in understand what real masculinity and femininity is.
Thank you very much for sharing! This is so powerful and beautiful.
That book is definitely on my wish list! As well as Grudem’s books where he addresses evangelical feminism. I noticed that there are some books available for free on the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood website – and Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood is one of them! Here is the link. And I am so thankful that he has podcasts about his book Systemic Theology, as well.
“Where biblical patterns are not followed, husbands and wives have no clear guidance on how to act within their marriages, and there is increasing stress, that brings harmful and even destructive consequences to families.” Yes! Yes! Yes! Enjoying so much reading his writings!
The Peaceful Wife 
Wow!!!! I echo the same sentiment you do! This is perfectly amazing. I can’t wait to visit his site, read his books, and listen to his teachings!
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Lori Alexander,
How did we miss this??!?!? I long for every believer to be able to have access to this wealth of information and biblical teaching! I have been listening to Wayne Grudem’s podcasts on Systematic Theology – WOW!!!!!!!!!! I don’t want to stop listening. I just want to absorb all I can. Such a blessing. And I love the site on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. Wish I had seen it years ago. 🙂
Much love, my dear sister!
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Hi April- WOW- how very encouraging!! I have shared with you before my concerns about women being elders- I was an elder of our church years ago- my husband was not completely in agreement but agreed ,partly not to be controlling and partly due to my reaction if he disagreed.BUT thru it all it took me a long time to decide because I was not comfortable with it,but did not know why- our pastor kept encouraging me,telling me I was already walking in that role with people coming to me for prayer… . since that time, it caused major problems in our marriage and my husband and I have both learned from it. what true spiritual authority looks like in our marriage.(My change has much to do with what I am learning thru your blog! Thank you so much April! )
We are back at the same church where another woman is an elder, we are being taught God’s word but the Lord is not being honoured in this part of the leadership. It is so very encouraging to have affirmation in this post and we are praying for God to guide us in how to deal with this situation. Thank you so very much for posting. I am so looking forward to reading more about this. God is so gentle and faithful in His guiding!
LikeLike
fam6,
Wayne Grudem speaks about his understanding of the role of women in the church in his podcasts, and in Systematic Theology, as well as in the books he has written that counter evangelical feminism. What I like about him is that he is very calm, loving, and humble. He also presents other viewpoints and the evidence that others give to support their viewpoints. And then he explains why he doesn’t believe certain arguments stand against biblical truth. I think you will find his writings and podcasts to be a valuable source of information. Just listened to one of his podcasts on the role of women in the church today, actually.
Praying for wisdom for you and for your husband!
Yes, I want us all to experience God’s best. One thing I think that came up that I hadn’t really thought about as I listened to Wayne Grudem today was that if a woman were to reprimand or correct a man publicly in a church meeting, then she would be the one he would come after if he was offended. I believe that having men have authority protects us in multiple ways as women. I know that I have taken the brunt of some anger from people here. I handle it to an extent, but if someone gets really nasty, or if it is a man who is being contentious with me – Greg handles it. What a weight that takes from my shoulders.
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I don’t think we could teach what we teach without our husband’s support, April. I call Ken my big bear behind me! 🙂
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Lori,
I agree. I am incredibly thankful for Greg’s support and also for his protection and wise advice. I am thankful you have Ken. He definitely looks out for you!
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Im curious but how does men having authority protect us as women?
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ChildofRa,
I so want to answer your question, my friend! I am hesitant, because I am not sure you can hear me without misunderstanding. But, I will attempt to explain. 🙂
When a believer in Christ is walking in obedience to God’s Word and is walking by the power of God’s Spirit rather than their own human strength, that person has God’s power, protection, wisdom, love, and many spiritual treasures that they cannot and do not have when they are walking in disobedience to God’s Word. So, part of the protection a wife has when she honors God’s commands to her as a wife to honor her husband’s leadership comes from the fact that she is walking in obedience and in faith, trusting God.
God has the power to sway a husband’s heart, and to direct his steps. When a wife trusts God to lead her through her husband, God can do that. Of course, if a husband tries to lead his wife into sin, she must respectfully decline, because her submission to Christ is preeminent over her submission to her husband. God has total authority over her. Humans never have total authority. They have delegated authority (more about that in Spiritual Authority). When a believer submits to those in delegated authority over them, whether the government, their boss, the police, a child’s parents, or a wife’s husband – the believer is obeying God and there are rewards that come from that. Sometimes there are blessings that come in this lifetime, and always there are rewards in heaven for obedience.
But also, as a wife honors her husband’s God-given leadership, a decent man will be humbled greatly and will have a greater desire to love and protect her and he will have a greater desire to seek God himself and to draw closer to God because of his wife’s beautiful example.
My husband protects me by helping me with very difficult people – he will now stand in the gap between me and someone who tries to attack me in some way. He didn’t do that when I was taking charge and being controlling and disrespectful. He also protects me with our children by insisting that they speak respectfully to me. He protects me from stress by helping me to decide if something needs to go from my plate if I am trying to do too much. He protects me from making hasty decisions by taking time to carefully research and really think through the consequences of decisions.
There are many more things, as well. But, maybe that will somewhat answer your question. 🙂
Much love!
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Okay it did cause i was thinking of protect in a different way
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ChildofRa,
There can be other kinds of protection, as well, of course – financially a husband would want to protect his wife and family and provide well for them so that they would not ever be in want. And a husband would want to protect his wife and family from physical harm – from storms, from intruders, from safety issues, etc… He would want to protect them emotionally from being hurt by others – or even by himself – whenever possible. He also would want to protect them spiritually from false teaching and from sin and things that would lead them away from God.
🙂
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Thank you for your explanation, I know it can seem as if I don’t understand to which some degree I don’t and that may be due to that I have never been in a relationship so I do ask a lot of questions. I just really wanted to say thank you because normally when I do ask christians questions they never really answer my questions, they just tell me things like ” you just gotta have faith” or they just start name calling me.
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ChildofRa,
I want to try to answer any question you may have as clearly and thoroughly as I can. 🙂 I believe you don’t have a relationship with Christ yet, if I am remembering correctly. Some of these things make a lot more sense when you are walking in a trusting relationship with Christ. So, I know that to some degree, when I try to explain, it may just not make sense. But – I know you are searching for truth. And I want to give you real answers. God doesn’t expect us to put faith in nothing. He gives us real evidence. I want to give you detailed answers – but at the same time, I know we may not be on the same page, so I realize there is a lot of room for misunderstanding.
I don’t call anyone names! Goodness! It breaks my heart to hear that you have not been getting clear answers or that anyone who calls themselves a Christian would call you names. 😦 I care very much about your soul, your heart, your needs, your life, and your relationship with God. 🙂 I want to see you find this amazing Treasure that is in Christ. You are very precious to me and infinitely more precious to God!
I’m happy to do anything I can to explain things to the best of my ability. Of course, there are some things about God that we little humans will never be able to wrap our minds around – ever. And we will always be learning while we are here on earth and even in heaven – there will be more and more to learn. I will do my best to point you to solid biblical answers and to the hope that is found in Christ, even on the difficult topics.
Thanks for your patience with me. 🙂
Much love, my friend!
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ChildofRa,
Here is a link to a free download “Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood” edited by John Piper and Wayne Grudem. Chapter one describes a practical overview of what mature masculinity and mature femininity look like (by God’s design in the Bible). It may be helpful. 🙂
LikeLike
ChildofRa,
Worldly wisdom and human wisdom can’t really comprehend God. Everything God asks us to do goes totally against our normal human nature and wisdom.
The world says: look out for number 1. God says: die to yourself and live for God.
The world says: hate anyone who hurts you and get revenge. God says: love those who mistreat you and overcome evil with good – leave vengeance to Me.
The world says: make sure you always get your way. God says: look out for the good of others, don’t be selfish.
The world says: make sure you have all the power in every relationship. God says: give up your power to Me, and I will work things out for your ultimate good.
The world says: avoid suffering at all costs. God says: rejoice in suffering because I will use it to make you stronger, more mature in your faith, and to bring glory to Myself.
God’s ways make no sense to us. But they are so much higher than our ways!
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I hope you fine ladies will take a closer look at the ministry of this man; not because he is beneficial but because he adds to the Word things that are not there. And his association with the ESV, which takes liberties away from the original Greek, further supports his changing of God’s plan for us all. I have enjoyed your site and thought you have been spot on and hope now that you really look at if the conclusions Grudem draws are Biblical. Sincerely, a husband of 3+ decades.
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Dave,
Thank you so much for voicing your concerns. And thanks for your past support of my blog. 🙂 I appreciate it so much!
I don’t see anything in the statement about biblical manhood and womanhood that is unbiblical in my understanding at this time. And I haven’t seen Grudem add things to the Word so far in what I have studied. I also don’t see anything unbiblical at this point in what I have heard on his podcasts in Systematic Theology. I know there are times when people ask questions for which he agrees there is no answer in the Bible. He sometimes states his opinion of what he thinks might be true. But, in all of those instances, he makes it very clear that there is no biblical information. Maybe that is what you are talking about?
This is one reason why I almost never ever recommend any other sites. There is no one I can recommend who is going to be totally perfect. Of course, I’m not either! That is why I encouraged everyone to weigh everything that Grudem or anyone else, including myself, says – against Scripture.
I am not aware of any glaring issues with Grudem. This is a lot more complicated for most of us because we don’t speak or read Greek and we are dependent on accurate translators. So, that is definitely a big frustration.
And, there will be times when believers genuinely differ on certain interpretations of specific theological issues. Sometimes there will be disagreements. Thankfully, in Christ, we can still have unity. I am not aware of Wayne Grudem teaching anything false. I am unfamiliar with any examples of the issues you have had with him.
Thank you very much for sharing your concerns. I seek to carefully evaluate everything he says in light of Scripture. Let’s pray for Grudem together that God might give him His wisdom and let’s pray the same for me, please. 🙂
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Yes! Wayne Gruden cowrote Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womahood with John Piper (and others) and that book has been crucial to me in my recovery. They say they essense of mature masculinity and femininity is this:
“AT THE HEART OF MATURE MASCULINITY IS A SENSE OF BENEVOLENT RESPONSIBILITY TO LEAD, PROVIDE FOR AND PROTECT WOMEN IN WAYS APPROPRIATE TO A MAN’S DIFFERING RELATIONSHIPS.
~
AT THE HEART OF MATURE FEMININITY IS A FREEING DISPOSITION TO AFFIRM,
RECEIVE AND NURTURE STRENGTH AND LEADERSHIP FROM WORTHY MEN IN WAYS
APPROPRIATE TO A WOMAN’S DIFFERING RELATIONSHIPS.”
(sorry for the caps that’s how they wrote it 😛 )
So helpful in understand what real masculinity and femininity is.
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One So Loved,
Thank you very much for sharing! This is so powerful and beautiful.
That book is definitely on my wish list! As well as Grudem’s books where he addresses evangelical feminism. I noticed that there are some books available for free on the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood website – and Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood is one of them! Here is the link. And I am so thankful that he has podcasts about his book Systemic Theology, as well.
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“Where biblical patterns are not followed, husbands and wives have no clear guidance on how to act within their marriages, and there is increasing stress, that brings harmful and even destructive consequences to families.” Yes! Yes! Yes! Enjoying so much reading his writings!
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Lori,
I’m so glad you are enjoying them. 🙂
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This information is just plain awesome! Thanks for passing it on.
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Refined,
You are most welcome, my sweet friend!!! It is great to hear from you!
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